Posts by Lee Marsh

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Elder's manual or similar from early to mid 1960s re sexual abuse issue

by Lee Marsh in

i am looking for any information given to elders during the early to mid 1960s on how to deal with child sexual abuse within the congregation.

.

it could be in letters or in some version of an elder's handbook or a letter to the elders that specifies how elder were to deal with the issue of sexual abuse within the congregation; not going to elders, silence about the issue, how to handle it with the minor and the accused.. if there was any direction to the elders that precedes this time period that would work too..

Lee Marsh

Biahi16 hours ago

I’m so sorry, Lee Marsh. Is your abuser still alive?

No they are both dead and buried

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Elder's manual or similar from early to mid 1960s re sexual abuse issue

by Lee Marsh in

i am looking for any information given to elders during the early to mid 1960s on how to deal with child sexual abuse within the congregation.

.

it could be in letters or in some version of an elder's handbook or a letter to the elders that specifies how elder were to deal with the issue of sexual abuse within the congregation; not going to elders, silence about the issue, how to handle it with the minor and the accused.. if there was any direction to the elders that precedes this time period that would work too..

Lee Marsh

hmmm. So it sounds like it might default to the issue of rape and putting the blame or responsibility on the victim.

But not reported to the police and dealt with it within the congregation.

And "surveillance" ???? How stupid. Just ask him if he did it again and when he says no enough times, make him an elder.

To be historically correct society didn't want to talk about it in the 60s. The first books and serious research wasn't done until the early 80s.

However, when I was 11, in 1963, I walked into a police station by myself and reported my father for molesting me. (pre-JW). They interviewed me, and when they realized I knew what I was talking about and there was medical proof, they got a woman, who I suspect was a social worker, to continue with the interview. Then the police drove me home and we sat in the car down the street and watched as they took my father out of the house in handcuffs. I did not see him again until the court case. At least someone was taking this seriously.

One year later, in 1964, when my mother was studying with the JWs, my step-father was reported to the elders and not the police. My mother walked in and saw him with me, so I sure wasn't lying. Not a she said, he said sort of deal. My mother chose to keep him in the home and send me to foster care. With the elder's blessing. It seems everyone blamed me for this. He was in his 40s and I was 12.. I weighed under 100 lbs maybe 5' tall and he weighed over 200 lbs and was 6'4". And they expected me to stop him.

11

Elder's manual or similar from early to mid 1960s re sexual abuse issue

by Lee Marsh in

i am looking for any information given to elders during the early to mid 1960s on how to deal with child sexual abuse within the congregation.

.

it could be in letters or in some version of an elder's handbook or a letter to the elders that specifies how elder were to deal with the issue of sexual abuse within the congregation; not going to elders, silence about the issue, how to handle it with the minor and the accused.. if there was any direction to the elders that precedes this time period that would work too..

Lee Marsh

I am looking for any information given to elders during the early to mid 1960s on how to deal with child sexual abuse within the congregation.

It could be in letters or in some version of an elder's handbook or a letter to the elders that specifies how elder were to deal with the issue of sexual abuse within the congregation; not going to elders, silence about the issue, how to handle it with the minor and the accused.. If there was any direction to the elders that precedes this time period that would work too.

18

JWs in Norway lost to the state - will not get state support back

by BelisemDeBelimakom in

translated with google translate:.

the trial went before oslo district court in january, and now the district court has concluded that the state is acquitted.

jehovah's witnesses are also ordered to pay court costs of just over nok 1.1 million.. https://www-vg-no.translate.goog/nyheter/innenriks/i/2bljxg/staten-frikjennes-etter-aa-ha-blitt-saksoekt-av-jehovas-vitner-melder-dagen?_x_tr_sl=ka&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp.

Lee Marsh

The underlying importance of this ruling is that the shunning policy is a human rights violation and therefore any religion that practices shunning cannot in all fairness be eligible for government funding as a "religion".

Groups or businesses or religions do not have basic human rights. HUMANS do.

11

Governing Body Culpability

by NotFormer in

i've seen people say something along the lines that the authorities would like to/have been trying to subpoena (members of) the gb (in csa cases).

my question is: why don't they?

if the gb are issuing orders to cover up evidence in csa cases, and otherwise interfere in justice being served in those cases, then they are accessories before (and after) the fact, and theoretically can be arrested and charged as such.

Lee Marsh

One of the big, I mean really big problems that everyone seems to be missing is that this privileged communication between an elder (clergy) and a penitent (sinner) is that is is between the clergy and the person who did something wrong.

I have never read anywhere that it includes a child asking for help because they were abused. The child has not sinned although he or she may be told they have. The child did not commit a crime although he or she may be blamed.

The child is begging for help.

On that basis alone the whole issue of privilege should evaporate. But it doesn't. The WTS does not want it to disappear. They want the courts to believe that ALL communication between a congregation member and a leader of the congregation should be privileged.

The WTS has JWs so tied up in fear of the outside authorities that they don't ask the elders to call the police or help them do it or be with them when they do it. Instead elders decide to start and finish their own "investigation". By then the child is often returned to the situation they are trying to get help for. Or they are forced to confront their abuser. Any evidence disappears. Stories get changed. The child is more fearful of the abusers, the elders AND the authorities that nothing gets done. BTW, it is extremely likely in these cases that the child will recant, because they think no one believes them, they will be blamed, and things will be worse than they were before. The child has no way of knowing that the police and social workers really can make a difference for the benefit of the child.

As more countries around the world condemn the WTS policies, the more pressure the WTS will be to change things in the US. Pressure not from JWs but from outsiders who become more aware of the problem.

11

Governing Body Culpability

by NotFormer in

i've seen people say something along the lines that the authorities would like to/have been trying to subpoena (members of) the gb (in csa cases).

my question is: why don't they?

if the gb are issuing orders to cover up evidence in csa cases, and otherwise interfere in justice being served in those cases, then they are accessories before (and after) the fact, and theoretically can be arrested and charged as such.

Lee Marsh

In the US the Constitution includes the Freedom Of Religion. This makes it very hard for the law to intervene in these cases. The religion claims they follow the Bible and therefore the law can’t interfere. The wants to protect children and the religion says they do.

setting precedent in law takes a lot of time and money. And a lot of pressure especially when you are rubbing noses with the constitution

24

What have I been doing for the last few years?

by Lee Marsh in

jw
friends

i used to be here a lot.

every single day almost.

and then i wasn't.. well let's start with a before.

Lee Marsh

A message to Simon

i am so glad you have kept this board alive. The history in here is so much easier to find than on the social media sites like Facebook and others.

As exes we need the research material that helps free us. Sites like this make doing the research much easier for people. Our history cannot and should never disappear.

Thank you for keeping it alive.

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